Dog on the Move

The wealthy inside lives of pigs


That is an audio transcript of the FT Weekend podcast episode: The wealthy inside lives of pigs

(Clip of pig making sounds)

Lilah Raptopoulos
You’re listening to a pig greet a human at a pig analysis facility outdoors of Vienna, Austria.

(Clip of pig making sounds)

The power belongs to the College of Veterinary Drugs in Vienna, and it’s type of like pig heaven. Pigs aren’t constrained in crates. They’re allowed to roam round, to construct their very own buildings. They principally simply get to hang around.

(Clip of pig making sounds)

Lilah Raptopoulos
These recordings are literally movies. On this one, three pigs are huddling collectively. My favorite recording is that this one in every of a pig blowing bubbles right into a puddle of water. (sound of bubbles) The thought is that these pigs get to stay their greatest lives away from the constraints we often placed on them. And that’s as a result of scientists need to see what pigs are actually like with out us.

Henry Mance
And the pigs form of, they only form of lollop round, you realize, like

Lilah Raptopoulos
(laughter)

Henry Mance
Like a cow would, like a sheep would or a goat would. And it form of it, it actually did change my impression of pigs to see them transfer towards the panorama as a result of we’re simply so unused to that, I feel. We’re so used to them both being in very churned up mud or being in in form of fairly industrial environment.

Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s my colleague Henry Mance speaking to me from our London studio. I invited him on as a result of final month he wrote a canopy story for FT Weekend Journal about pigs. It appears at some current science that’s displaying us what many already guessed, however most of us don’t need to admit: that pigs are much more sentient and complicated than we give them credit score for.

Henry Mance
I feel principally the way in which we take into consideration pigs is, we don’t take into consideration pigs, as a result of to consider pigs is actually uncomfortable. And it’s, it’s actually uncomfortable as a result of we, lots of people discover them stunning animals, discover them cute animals. They’re a few of the first animals we see in storybooks. And we don’t like to think about them struggling as a result of we all know these of us who’ve seen them up shut, that they, they’ve skills, they’ve consciousness. And so I feel we simply combat to ourselves in numerous methods round hoping that they they’re given good lives.

Lilah Raptopoulos
At the moment I converse with Henry about all issues pigs, as a result of as we perceive extra about how pigs and different animals suppose and really feel, we’re asking greater questions on how we farm and eat them. Then we return to the world of people and the dwelling buildings we construct, particularly skyscrapers, pencil skyscrapers. This sort which are half a block large, a whole bunch of ft tall, and have only a few very costly items. I speak about them with the FT’s structure critic Edwin Heathcote.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
That is FT Weekend. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos.

Henry Mance is the FT’s chief options author. He’s additionally an animal lover, though he’s truly fairly sceptical of the time period. He has a guide out known as The best way to Love Animals in a Human-Formed World, and the premise is that all of us say we love animals, however as a rule, we’re fairly unhealthy at loving them.

Henry Mance
And the thought being that all of us describe ourselves as animal lovers. You understand, even Tucker Carlson, I feel . . . 

Lilah Raptopoulos
(laughter)

Henry Mance
I’ve acquired a clip of him saying, “I really like animals”. And it’s like, it’s a part of what it means to be human. However we don’t truly observe by way of with that.

Lilah Raptopoulos
So the pig factor is a part of a broader exploration for Henry, and it’s additionally a part of a broader exploration for science, which for the previous 30 years has been actually fascinated by cognition. How do we expect and really feel?

Henry Mance
There was like this entire cognitive flip in animal analysis over the previous 30 years and like, one after the other, species have had consideration paid to them. One of many analysis teams I visited for this piece in Budapest, in Hungary, after they began off researching canines within the Nineties, it was seen as one thing fairly loopy. I imply, it might appear to be, why are you gonna hassle taking a look at what canines can do, how intelligent canines are. And now form of 20, 30 years on, it’s completely regular and accepted to go and do analysis with canines, pigs, cats, you realize, rats, goats. Till you may come to some tentative conclusions about, you realize, what animals are conscious of.

Lilah Raptopoulos
So now it’s the pigs’ flip. Henry thought he ought to verify in on the most recent in pig analysis. So along with Austria, he went to Budapest.

Henry Mance
In Budapest, what they’re doing is that they’re making an attempt to work out how domestication impacts animals. So we all know that canines are notably delicate, for instance, to the way in which that people act. So if a human factors that, a canine would are likely to pay attention to that. And the query is, is that as a result of as puppies, they’ve been introduced up with human presence, and subsequently, if you happen to handled a pig in the identical manner, if you happen to deal with the pig with love and care, they might do the identical factor.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Henry truly met some pigs residing canine lives in Budapest. Right here’s a recording of 1 named Pillow. She’s being requested to take a seat in Hungarian.

(Clip taking part in)

The researchers there are discovering that pigs are solely able to studying all the identical methods as canines. They sit, they beg for meals. Pillow’s keeper, who’s a canine coach by commerce, truly stated that pigs are quicker at studying instructions as a result of they’re so food-motivated. Henry additionally spoke with a researcher in Copenhagen who’s categorising whether or not pigs’ grunts change based mostly on their temper. It seems they will sense stress and go it on, similar to people.

You understand, Henry, it’s, I used to be eager about how we take into consideration pigs culturally, and so they get a extremely unhealthy rap, you realize, like, folks suppose that pigs are dumb and so they’re soiled and so they’re sweaty and so they’re lazy and dumb. And studying your piece, it’s like, OK, look, they’re not these items. They’re these, like, emotionally complicated, collaborative. Undoubtedly meals motivated, however, you realize, straightforward to show, type of candy.

Henry Mance
Yeah. So let’s take a few of these on since you talked about that I imply, say . ..

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, let’s do it.

Henry Mance
Sweating like a pig. That isn’t a factor. I imply, pigs have only a few sweat glands and so they don’t actually sweat in any respect. And the phrase sweating like a pig in all probability comes from pig iron, ie form of the smelting of of a metallic relatively than something to do with pigs. Pigs are soiled. Effectively, they like, they like rolling up as a result of they will’t sweat they should wallow in water. And they also, they’ll wallow in mud like a hippopotamus. However they’re truly clear animals. And one of many issues one of many causes you may maintain pigs fairly fortunately as a pet, probably, is that they don’t wish to go to the bathroom the place they eat. So that they’re not

Lilah Raptopoulos
Oh, actually?

Henry Mance
They’re not going to be messing up your house or your own home. And truly, on farms, there’s been some type of work to see whether or not you may have a separate space established, type of a pig rest room. And it does appear to work and so they do appear to answer that. So that they’re not, they’re not soiled.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.

Henry Mance
The reality is, now we have a barely difficult view of pigs, as a result of clearly George Orwell wrote in Animal Farm that, you realize, the pigs had been extra equal than the others. The pigs successfully took cost. So there was this concept of of clever pigs and there have been truly over historical past, I used to be form of fascinated to be taught, you realize, examples of pigs getting used for fairly cognitive duties that we affiliate with canines, in order guard pigs, as herding pigs. And naturally, you realize, truffles, you realize, pigs are

Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s true.

Henry Mance
Have these unbelievable snouts. And truly it was so nice to be up shut with just a few pig snouts, since you simply see how they transfer, as a result of they will transfer in all these completely different instructions. And also you see how excited they’re by the completely different smells of your footwear or no matter.

Lilah Raptopoulos
So pigs have gotten a nasty rap. How did this occur? The reply boils right down to the truth that over the centuries we’ve put them in conditions the place they will’t assist however be disgusting. We’ve put them in cages the place they will’t transfer, so they appear lazy and the place they act aggressively towards their younger as a result of they’re pissed off. However in a pure setting they’re completely completely different.

Henry Mance
Within the seventies they questioned principally, would pigs act like wild boar from which they had been domesticated in all probability round 9,000 years in the past? And they also put a gaggle of pigs who’d been raised on farms right into a semi-wild setting. And really rapidly the pigs began appearing like wild boar. So that they began making nests, they began forming little teams. When the sows, or the females, had been prepared to offer start, they might go off from the group and construct their very own nest. And I feel if you happen to get the prospect to see pigs of their type of pure setting, it does alter our perspective.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
People kill about 1.5bn pigs a yr. And naturally, one of many huge causes to check them is as a result of we eat them and since lately, there’s been much more concentrate on how we deal with them. Pigs come from China, and historically they had been saved in yards. They had been confined to particular areas however capable of transfer round. Within the final 50 or so years although, we’ve been farming them in factories the place they will’t train their our bodies or their minds. So, for instance, on manufacturing facility farms, pigs can’t play with straw as a result of straw gunks up the drainage and also you want the drainage as a result of on this state of affairs, pigs need to go to the lavatory inside their crates.

Henry Mance
So that you’ll have some pigs that are saved inside their entire lives. And a few of the mom pigs, the sows, could also be saved in successfully cages, had been known as sow stalls or crates actually, with metal bars on both aspect. And so they’re form of so small that they’re unable to show spherical. The purpose of those stalls, which have been launched actually for the reason that seventies, is that they make it very straightforward to maintain giant numbers of pigs in sheds, and so they make it very straightforward for untrained inventory folks, ie individuals who work on the farms, to feed these pigs and so they scale back the aggression. You understand, they cease pigs preventing as a result of they’re simply in these confined areas, however they will’t flip spherical. Their bone well being suffers. They’re assumed to be very, very pissed off. And pigs, which within the wild would spend form of most of their time grazing or rooting round within the soil, simply can’t do something. And a few of them form of are biting the bars.

Lilah Raptopoulos
These gestational crates, the pens the place the sows can’t transfer, they’re banned in Europe. Within the US, individuals are making an attempt to ban them, together with billionaire investor Carl Icahn. He’s been publicly pressuring McDonald’s to fully cease utilizing them. And, you realize, it’s exhausting to put in writing in regards to the science of animals, particularly animals that we eat, with out working straight into moral conversations about how we increase them and whether or not we must always eat them in any respect. I ought to say that Henry is vegan himself, however he insists that he didn’t write the piece to make you vegan. I’ve to ask on behalf of — I’m positive there are sceptics on the market, I noticed just a few under your piece — if you write this, is a purpose of this piece so that you can get folks to cease consuming meat?

Henry Mance
No, completely not. And I ought to say this piece wasn’t my concept. And, you realize, once I spoke to those researchers, we weren’t actually making an attempt to concentrate on that query. We had been, what they had been making an attempt to take care of and what I used to be making an attempt to know was, you realize, how do you discover out what goes on inside an animal’s thoughts? However then, time and time once more if you ask these questions, you then have a look at a few of the circumstances on farms and also you suppose, that is inconsistent with the way in which we deal with different animals. And I feel that that’s usually a really logical form of transfer to go from, and a few of the researchers I spoke to, they weren’t, I imply, I’ve no concept whether or not they eat meat or not, however they might describe their experiments after which they might say, you realize, that is, it’s very troublesome to justify preserving animals in a few of the circumstances they’re.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
So if it’s in regards to the science, listed here are another scientific details about pigs you could not know. They yawn sympathetically. If you happen to yawn, they’ll possible yawn too. Pigs could also be able to mendacity. A pig that is aware of the place the meals is will lead a pig who doesn’t away from the meals. (Sound of pigs) And a pig that makes a high-pitched squeal is probably going in misery. Comfortable pigs produce deeper sounds. (Sound of pigs) In order you may see, the extra you be taught, the extra you may determine with them.

So, Henry, I’m curious, like what you suppose we must be in search of as we begin to re-evaluate our relationship with animals? You understand, I do know individuals who went on Netflix and watched My Octopus Instructor after which they completely gave up consuming octopus however they eat all the opposite animals. Or like out of your piece, you realize, we eat pigs, however we don’t eat canines. And so, like, what do you search for? What will we search for? Is it intelligence? Is it emotion?

Henry Mance
I feel it’s I feel there’s a component of irrationality that is available in right here. And there are some animals who’re so clever or charismatic or stunning that it’s simply very exhausting to think about consuming them if you happen to actually didn’t must.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Proper.

Henry Mance
I imply, that’s actually how I really feel about whales or octopuses, which, you realize, we perceive to be very clever, but in addition about I imply, simply from an aesthetic viewpoint, I discover it might discover it fairly troublesome to eat a jaguar.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Proper.

Henry Mance
After which there’s this query of, nicely, why don’t we eat our pets? And, you realize, I feel if you begin getting to those type of questions, you should be actually positive that these animals have had life and a satisfying life and a satisfying life. Have these animals have the life wherein they will take choices over their very own future? And the issue with that’s that when you then have animals who’re taking choices, who’re deciding their very own path on Earth, nicely, then they begin displaying personalities and begin displaying themselves to be people. And you then really feel

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah.

Henry Mance
Uncomfortable consuming them for that purpose. So I feel there are many circles you may get into.

Lilah Raptopoulos
You understand, it’s fascinating with a bit like this as a result of we’ve talked on the present about the way it’s actually exhausting to stay like a completely moral life. We had the creator Dan Brooks on lately and got here to the conclusion that it’s simply unimaginable to do all good. And, you realize, some folks argue that almonds are worse than eggs and . . . I suppose I’m curious the place you land on that when as you’re, you realize, extending past the piece.

Henry Mance
I feel I’m type of maybe like hopelessly naive or optimistic or I’m somebody who does imagine particular person motion issues and who does imagine that there are methods ahead that are higher than different methods. I feel that if you happen to do come to the conclusion that, it’s not the purpose of this piece, however if you happen to do come to a conclusion that sure kinds of farming are improper, then, you realize, with each meal you’ve got or don’t have, you make a selection and also you ship a sign. And that has produced large change in the midst of my lifetime, for instance, by way of preserving chickens in cages. You understand, I spoke to Temple Grandin, who’s a type of pioneer of animal husbandry within the US and definitely not somebody who doesn’t eat meat, you realize, works with the meat business. And what she would say is that there’s been a type of aberration over the previous 30, 40 years in some types of farming which have simply acquired too industrialised. You understand, metal was so low-cost that immediately contractors had been providing to construct farmers, these type of caged environments. And she or he says, you realize, the most effective factor which may have occurred to pigs is that the value of metal has gone up a lot that it’s now not viable to construct these cages. And so I feel it’s partly about realising that the methods now we have will not be the methods we at all times had, and so they don’t need to be the methods that we’ll stay with for years and years.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Henry, thanks a lot for being on the present. That is nice.

Henry Mance
Thanks lots for having me.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
Over the previous decade, there’s been a brand new fashion of skyscraper popping up alongside the New York Metropolis skyline. They don’t have the Artwork Deco grandeur of the Chrysler or the Empire State or the heft of One World Commerce. They’re a lot thinner, like chopsticks or pencils poking out of the sky. And in line with Edwin Heathcote, who’s our structure and design correspondent, that likeness has given all of them kinds of nicknames.

Edwin Heathcote
And that’s type of what they’ve turn into colloquially generally known as: the pencil skyscrapers or the skinnyscrapers or the tremendous skinny towers. You understand, there are dozens of names for them.

Lilah Raptopoulos
These skinnyscrapers have shot up largely alongside the southern fringe of Central Park. It’s generally known as Billionaire’s Row, which ought to offer you an concept of who’s residing there, or not less than who’s shopping for the items. Edwin wrote about these skinnyscrapers lately for FT Weekend. I’ve put the piece within the present notes. In it, he quotes a professor named David Madden.

Edwin Heathcote
He used this phrase when speaking to me that these must be seen extra as land-bound yachts than residences. That they don’t deal with any type of challenge within the housing market, however relatively they’re belongings that are geared toward a category of footloose, excessive net-worth people. It’s a type of trophy property relatively than one thing that enables them to turn into a part of the civic lifetime of town.

Lilah Raptopoulos
I invited Edwin on to inform us what these skinnyscrapers signify and the way structure can mirror the id of a metropolis.

I’m actually excited to speak to you about this as a result of I stay in New York and I really feel like each every so often I search for and the skyline has one other of those extraordinarily tall, extraordinarily slim skyscrapers, like poking up. And we’re all type of aggravated by them, and we all know not numerous precise New Yorkers actually stay in them. However they’re additionally architecturally type of fascinating. What are they? The place did they arrive from?

Edwin Heathcote
They’re an actual departure, truly, for skyscrapers, as a result of for a lot of the historical past of that sort of constructing, it was industrial house, was places of work. And within the final 20 years or so, actual property costs within the huge cities have gone so loopy that it turns into economically worthwhile to construct these extraordinarily slim towers in a manner that it wasn’t beforehand, and they might have made no monetary sense.

Lilah Raptopoulos
And Edwin, earlier than we speak about them intimately, I’m curious if all these skyscrapers exist in cities outdoors of New York, like I’m considering of Dubai or Shanghai.

Edwin Heathcote
It’s a very New York factor, truly. They do exist. So there are very slender towers. There are some in Hong Kong and Singapore, however actually nothing like as attenuated or type of caricatured as they’re in Manhattan.

Lilah Raptopoulos
When Edwin says caricatured, he’s speaking about buildings that at their base take up about three brownstones price of house, after which they shoot up greater than 1 / 4 of a mile into the sky. The latest one, 111 West 57th Road, is the thinnest skyscraper on this planet. It has 84 flooring and solely 60 items. So within the tower, every condominium has not less than a ground to itself. They promote for between eight and $66mn. There are pictures of a few of these in Edwin’s piece.

In your piece, you go into element in regards to the latest skinnyscraper, 111 West 57th. Are you able to describe it? It looks as if fairly a feat.

Edwin Heathcote
It’s a feat. I imply, it’s a really exceptional constructing. It’s you realize, I feel perhaps in my article, I in contrast it to a small stack of espresso stirrers which were barely, barely type of staggered, you realize, perhaps 5 – 6 which were staggered. So on the high, there’s this type of feathered impact. It doesn’t resemble anything. You understand, it’s so slim and so type of new in a manner, as a typology, that it wants its personal type of entire archetype.

Lilah Raptopoulos
A part of the explanation these skinnyscrapers have appeared in Manhattan first is as a result of in Manhattan there aren’t that many restrictions on how tall you may construct. With a little bit of manoeuvring builders can basically go as excessive because the expertise permits if it is sensible financially. I imply, you consider New York, you consider tall towers, proper?

Edwin Heathcote
A part of the difficulty with these supertalls is what are they for. And one reply to that’s they’re to strengthen town’s personal concept of itself. New York has at all times been eager on peak as a type of device for self-promotion and self-image. So, you realize, we simply want to think about the World Commerce Middle, the Empire State Constructing. They’re symbolic architectures which try to rework the skyline and make the skyline into a picture. So I feel in a manner, this supertall phenomenon is a manner for New York to recapture the type of excessive floor within the skyscraper sport. So I feel numerous it truly has to do with civic self-image in addition to want. And I feel you talked about Dubai. It’s one other metropolis that has that very same want. You understand, so I feel Dubai’s is a type of in a manner, a synthetic metropolis. It’s based mostly on actual property worth so you could nicely get skyscrapers that are taller or extra extraordinary or extra extravagant than they should be, as a result of they’re all a part of Dubai’s picture as a thrusting, modern place the place, you realize, you go for unbelievable views and a type of an rising skyline for the worldwide south.

Lilah Raptopoulos
An individual in your piece makes use of this time period “vertical suburbanism”, which could be very bizarre to consider something about Manhattan as suburban. What does that imply?

Edwin Heathcote
It’s a wierd new manner of wanting on the skyscraper phenomenon. So we’re very used to sprawl being a horizontal phenomenon. You understand that the suburbs sprawl out past the sides of town and so they get sparser and sparser as they attain additional out. However you would argue and Samuel Stein, the sociologist and author, calls it precisely that. He calls this vertical sprawl. So the way in which that town will get sparser because it climbs in the direction of the clouds. And it’s a really fascinating manner of re-conceptualising town, that the type of sparse stage manner, manner up above 100 tales above the sidewalk turns into its personal type of suburb with these very unique residences surrounded by numerous house. However I feel the issue actually is the hole between the aesthetics. You understand, you may recognize these items as fairly elegant buildings and intensely high quality items of engineering and what they do to town and the way they make the individuals who encounter them really feel, you realize. There’s a sense of widespread possession, I feel, with buildings just like the Empire State Constructing. Everybody has a reminiscence of going to the Christmas tree on the Rockefeller Centre or going to the, you realize, the previous restaurant on the high of the World Commerce Middle. And these new buildings will not be that. These pencil skyscrapers are type of tremendous unique, and they’re for the type of 0.01%, the oligarchs. And I feel that that disconnect has made them more durable to like.

Lilah Raptopoulos
That basically resonates with me. And when your piece got here out, I used to be speaking to my sister about it and she or he simply was infuriated by them, you realize, went on this form of rant about, wealth inequality within the US and and they’re type of the aesthetic expression of that. And I’m curious if you happen to can speak about that. Like, what do you do in a metropolis the place there’s buildings that everyone hates?

Edwin Heathcote
(Laughter) Effectively, I feel this is likely one of the points which comes up many times with the supertalls is that they’re a really intelligent use of engineering. However you need to ask the query, who’re they for? And is it price it? So the influence they’ve on town is so nice visually, and but the quantity of housing they supply is so small. A type of common eight-story Parisian house block would in all probability offer you 3 times that many individuals. So in a manner, it’s billed as a really environment friendly use of house on the bottom, however it’s a really poor use of house because it rises. The up to date metropolis is turning into hollowed out as its prime actual property within the centre turns into fully devoted to residential actual property. So it’s not only a New York phenomenon. It’s occurring in Paris and Chicago, in London, in Rome, you realize, even in Barcelona. And I feel we want cities to be very sturdy. There was lately, notably in London, however I feel numerous US cities as nicely, an abdication of duty by planners. So successfully, planning has been left to builders and the planners type of reply to what the builders suggest. So planning has turn into reactive relatively than proactive. And in different cities, in say, Germany or Switzerland, that’s very a lot not the case. The plan is, plan the envelope and you need to construct as an architect or an engineer, a developer, inside that envelope that’s being given for you. And there are critics of each kinds of growth. The critics of Germany will say, yeah, that’s high quality. However then the whole lot finally ends up wanting just like the dockside in Hamburg.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Mm-hmm.

Edwin Heathcote
However then the critics of the type of extra laissez faire planning strategy of London will simply ask you to have a look at the London skyline and, you realize, no extra must be stated. It’s fully incoherent.

Lilah Raptopoulos
New York is likely one of the world’s monetary capitals, so it’s pure that worldwide patrons are investing right here in these pied-à-terres. However in a metropolis the place rents proceed to rise — this yr, they rose by 33% — these gross sales come at a excessive value for New Yorkers. It’s straightforward in some methods to construct one thing for 60 oligarchs who barely even spend time there. Why not construct one thing for the remainder of us? These new towers mirror that again at us in tangible brick and glass. And Edwin says that builders, city planners and politicians should be far more deliberate if we need to construct a practical metropolis for the longer term.

Edwin Heathcote
You understand, I feel we can provide the builders and they’re the excessive net-worth people their peak, however there must be a payback then. And I feel that’s what actually hasn’t been thought by way of. If, as an example, the Russian oligarchs and you realize, who’ve gone now however the Chinese language super-rich or the European tax exiles or whoever it may be. In the event that they disappear off the scene or, you realize, they resolve to land in a unique metropolis, what else can these buildings be used for? Can they be transformed to, I don’t know, faculties? Museums? Most likely not. They’re tremendous particular. They’re simply constructed for one factor. So I feel that’s, you realize, we should be constructing structure now that’s going to be versatile and adaptable for a totally unknown future.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Edwin, this was so fascinating. Thanks a lot for approaching the present.

Edwin Heathcote
Thanks a lot, Lilah. Very nice discuss to you.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s the present this week. Thanks for listening to FT Weekend, the podcast from the Monetary Occasions. Subsequent week now we have a complete episode on the artwork market because it closes out its spring season. We’ll be taught the way it works from arts editor Jan Dalley and artwork market columnist Melanie Gerlis. And we additionally discuss to Alex Rotter from Christie’s. He’s the top of their twentieth and twenty first century artwork and the public sale homes had a banger of a season. If you happen to just like the present, I’d love if you happen to might share it with your folks or in your Twitter or in your Instagram story. That basically helps folks discover us. Additionally, please communicate. As at all times, inform me your whole cultural pursuits in the intervening time. You possibly can e mail us at ftweekendpodcast@FT.com. We’re on Twitter @FTWeekendPod, and yow will discover me on Instagram and Twitter @LilahRap. You possibly can see behind the scenes podcast content material on my Instagram. Hyperlinks to the whole lot talked about right here right this moment are within the present notes alongside a hyperlink to the most effective presents accessible on a subscription to the FT, together with 50% off a digital sub and a extremely nice deal on FT Weekend in print each Saturday. These presents are at ft.com/weekendpodcast. Be certain to make use of that hyperlink.

I’m Leila Raptopoulos and right here is my proficient workforce. Katya Kumkova is our senior producer, Lulu Smith is our assistant producer. Our sound engineers are Breen Turner and Sam Giovinco, with authentic music by Metaphor Music. Zoe Sullivan is our contributing producer and Topher Forhecz is our govt producer. And thanks go as at all times to Cheryl Brumley and Renee Kaplan. Please take care and we are going to discover one another once more subsequent week.

This transcript has been mechanically generated. If by any likelihood there’s an error please ship the small print for a correction to: typo@ft.com. We are going to do our greatest to make the modification as quickly as potential.



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